Osama bin Laden Alive, Says Pakistan Expert
By Cho Jae-hyon
Staff Reporter
March 10 was Osama bin Laden's 53rd birthday. Did he celebrate his birthday? Is he dead? If not, where is he now? There are a lot of rumors circling that he is dead.
But Rahim Ullah Yusufzai, a Pakistani veteran journalist who interviewed bin Laden twice in 1998, says the world's most wanted man is still alive and probably hiding somewhere along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
"I think he is alive. He is in the border areas," Yusufzai told The Korea Times on the sidelines of the East Asia Regional Media Program co-sponsored by New Zealand and the European Union in Jakarta, Indonesia from March 9 to 11. The chance that he remains alive is "80 to 90 percent," he said.
"I think it is so, because they can't keep this in secret. Whenever somebody dies, they announce it. But Taliban don't admit it. But al-Qaida always admit when somebody has died."
The journalist said there are five reasons why he has survived.
"One is he's very lucky. The second reason is that he's very careful about his movements and about the people he meets. Third, he has a small number of people with him," he said.
"Fourthly, he is in area that is pro-al Qaida, pro-Osama bin Laden. He keeps moving. Fifth, incompetence, the poor intelligence of Americans; they don't really know where he is."
Since December 2001, he's been a virtual ghost. He's only spoken to the public through video tapes.
Yusufzai is a senior editor and Peshawar bureau chief with The News International, an English newspaper from Pakistan. He has served as a correspondent for Time Magazine, and ABC News. He is also working for BBC Radio. He has interviewed Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and a range of other militants across the tribal areas of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
He said bin Laden is "smart" and believes in the power of violence.
He quoted bin Laden as saying: "We have no other choice but to use force. America is a super power. America has been using force against other countries. America is attacking and occupying other countries. Muslims have tried peaceful means, but they did not succeed. And Israel is also using force with the support of America to occupy Palestine, and deny the rights of the Palestine people."
He said that according to bin Laden, America knows the language of the gun.
"(Bin Laden) said they have to use force to make America listen. That is his argument," Yusufzai said. "I asked him if they could also peacefully struggle. But he said, 'Unless you use force, America will not listen. America will not accept anything.'"
Yusufzai said he believes that bin Laden is supported by a minority of Muslims not by the majority.
He said he found bin Laden has a sense of humor when he interviewed him.
"When I asked him, 'How many children do you have,' he said, 'I lost count, I don't know how many,'" Yusufzai said with a laugh. "So, then I asked him, 'I heard that your family disowned you, is that true?' He said, 'Blood is thicker than water. That can't happen.'"
To the question whether he is a multimillionaire, bin Laden replied, "I'm rich in my heart."
His interview with bin Laden in Afghanistan in December 1998 was one of the last interviews with him. After that, he has not done any interviews.
Yusufzai described him as being "very clever and smart."
"He can manipulate the media and he can use the media. In his camp, he had arranged some people to come. When he came in that car with body guards, everybody was firing in the air to show as if he is very powerful, he's got all the guns, all these fighters," Yusufzai said.
"They were all locals from Afghanistan and Pakistan. I know the local language, so I asked these people who were with machine guns, 'Are you part of al Qaida?'And their answer was 'No, we were asked to come.' He surely knows the power of the media. He wanted to impress them."
Yusufzai, also a BBC correspondent, said bin Laden wanted to use Yusufzai to reach Western audiences.
Asked whether he has any plan to interview him again, Yusufzai said,"I wish. Whoever gets an interview, he will be a millionaire as there is strong demand."
He ruled out the rumors that bin Laden is a phantom or is a CIA agent.
"Some people argue with me, Osama bin Laden doesn't exist or he is an imaginary character," he said. "I can be wrong one time, but not two times. I met him."
He said bin Laden is very rich. "Arab people give donations. They didn't need CIA money. They are self-sufficient. Osama is a multimillionaire. He has his own company, which is a big construction firm in Saudi Arabia. He got his own money."
Taliban Hate Koreans in Afghanistan
In July 2007 when 23 evangelists from a South Korean church were kidnapped in Afghanistan, Yusufzai said he arranged access for sections of the Korean media with the Taliban commander who kidnapped the Korean missionaries.
They were able to talk on phone from Korea, Islamabad and Kabul to the Taliban commander in Ghazni, he said.
"The meeting was arranged by the Red Cross. That's how they were negotiating for three days. And finally a deal was made. Koreans denied they had paid money. But I believe money was paid to Taliban commanders," he said.
He said all the parties, including the Korean and Afghanistan governments, were reckless for allowing them to visit the dangerous conflict zone.
"I don't know who allowed them to come to Afghanistan. It's very dangerous. Very irresponsible on the part of Afghan government, Korean government and also on the part of these people. They did not know where they were going," he said.
He also expressed concern over the Korean government's dispatch of its troops to Afghanistan.
"Now Korea is again sending army troops to Afghanistan. The Taliban are saying Koreans made an agreement with them after that incident that they would withdraw all troops from Afghanistan and never come back. But the Korean government is saying no, it did not make any agreement," he said. "Now the Taliban are saying that they will take revenge, because again Koreans are coming to Afghanistan. They want to help Americans and NATO. But Afghanistan is very dangerous."
오사마 빈 라덴 생존해 있어: 파키스탄인 전문가 말해
3월 10일은 오사마 빈 라덴의 53회 생일이었다. 그가 생일을 맞이했을까? 죽었을까? 안 죽었으면 지금 어디에 있을까? 그가 죽었다는 소문은 많다.
그러나 1998년 빈 라덴을 두번 인터뷰한 파키스탄의 노련한 기자인 라힘 울라 유수프자이씨는 세계적인 지명수배자인 그는 파키스탄과 아프카니스탄 국경지역에 숨어 아직도 살아 있을 것이라고 말한다.
유슈푸자이 기자는 3월 9일부터 11일까지 인도네시아 자카르타에서 열린 뉴질랜드와 유럽연합 공동으로 후원한 동아시아지역 언론 프로그램과 별개의 모임에서 코리아 타임즈와의 인터뷰에서 “국경지역에 살아있다고 생각한다”고 말했다.
“그들이 이를 비밀로 지킬 수 없기 때문에 그렇다고 생각합니다. 누군가가 죽으면 그들은 이를 발표합니다. 그러나 탈레반은 이를 받아들이지 않습니다. 그러나 알카에다는 누군가가 죽으면 항상 이름 받아들입니다.”
이 기자는 그가 아직 살아있다는 이유 다섯 가지를 들었다.
그는 “하나는 배우 운이 좋다는 것이며 둘째는 그의 움직임과 구가 만나는 사람들에 관해 매우 신중하다는 것이다. 세 번째는 자기와 가까이 있는 사람들이 아주 소수라는 점이다.”
“네 번 째는 친 알카에다이며 친 오사마 빈 라덴 지역에 있으며 다섯 번 째는 미국의 능력부족과 빈약한 정보. 즉 그들은 정말 그가 어디 있는지 모른다는 것이다.”
아무도 2001년 12월 이후 그를 본적이 없다. 비데오 테이프에만 나타났으나 그 이후 직접 그를 본 사람은 아무도 없다.